The road ahead: 0.3b

[KB]

Hi,

I've kind of mentioned this in various other threads, but figured I would give beta-testers some indication of where the next version (0.3b) is going, so that you don't get too attached to certain features (or too hung up by others). There are going to be some major changes, whilst the core functionality and feel (especially of Binder View) will be maintained. Mainly its a streamlining exercise; I feel that the current version is a little schizophrenic, and feedback would seem to suggest that many users feel the same way. Binder view feels right, but Compose mode is too Mail-like and Draft view is plain slow and buggy, and adds very little.

So, this is a rough guide to what to expect in 0.3b. After that, it will be a matter of making these features rock-solid before a 1.0 release.

* Draft mode is going. Like I say, it's too buggy and adds little. Mellel and Jer's Novel Writer do this better as this is one of their core features. As it's not a core Scrivener feature, it is never going to compete. Things will be cleaner without it.

* Compose mode will be merged with Binder mode. From now on, you will split documents in Binder mode, and be able to hide the notes/index card in Binder mode too, so that Compose mode will be superfluous.

* Single-window interface. Double-clicking on a document will no longer open it in a separate window. All text editing will be done within Binder mode.

* No more templates. I added this at the suggestion of a user, but in retrospect I think it is unnecessary bloat - sorry! I wonder if anybody uses it?

* Do folders need notes? I don't really think so. Again, I added this feature to 2.0 as a user suggestion, but I think it only confuses things.

Okay, so that's the stuff that's going. Here's the stuff that's coming:

* Better outlining. This was always supposed to be a main feature of Scrivener, but somehow it got buried in Draft view and wasn't too hot. Obviously I'm not going to try to compete with OmniOutliner, that isn't what Scrivener is about, but it will have a decent outliner. Here's a preview:



(It's not obvious from the screenshot, but that is a modified outlining table you are looking at, not a text view.)

* Annotations and inline comments have been merged into a new inline comments system. I was never 100% happy with these features. The new system is an inline annotations system, meaning that you place annotations within the text (as opposed to in a separate box) and it is marked differently (coloured and given an outline - you can select the colour individually for each annotation if you so wish). This has the advantage that it is very easy to "comment out" normal text - that is, to swap comments and text back and forth via a simple key-combination. This is what it looks like:



Note that this isn't quite the system I was originally planning (based on AmberV's suggestions in the "Systems for Annotations" topic), which would have allowed the notes to be collapsed. This system may still be implemented in a future version of Scrivener (2.0?), but for now it is out of scope. (I looked into it and started down that route only to find that it would take so much customising of the text system that it would be inviting lots of new bugs to stamp out - something I don't want to do at this stage of development.)

* Footnotes. Footnotes work just like annotations, and look like this:



The difference between footnotes and annotations is really only in the way they are exported...

* Improved RTF export. Exporting to RTF will support images, comments and footnotes (which can be exported as footnotes or endnotes). This is especially useful for exporting to Microsoft Word, which can't open RTFD files (meaning currently you lose any images on exporting). Here is an example document as it would appear in Scrivener and then as the exported RTF appears when opened in Word:

Scrivener:


Word:


* Changes in Storyboard mode. Storyboard mode will no longer have a text view, nor "Choose..." buttons. Instead, the outline view in Binder mode will remain visible, and the two index card views will appear on the right of it (the bottom one will be collapsible). You will select what appears in the index card views via the outline view. Double-clicking on an index card will open the index card only in an editor window, so that you can edit the synopsis (kind of like 3 by 5 used to work in that respect, I believe). Thus the outline view will be on screen at all times (although it will be collapsible), providing cohesion. No more schizophrenia...

Those are the main things that are going to be changing. Because of the extent of these changes, the next version is unlikely to be out for a couple of months (I will also have to write a converter to convert your current projects so that they work with the next version). Bear with me. Keep those wishlist suggestions and bug reports coming, all the same.

All the best,
Keith

[shorn]

Hi Keith,

Thanks very much for the roadmap. It is good to know where things are headed.

Here are some first reactions (limited by the fact that I am not writing this at home on my 10.4 Mac but on another Mac with only 10.3, so I can't check some things, however...):

1) Removals

"Draft mode is going"
OK. I only have ever used really Draft mode for reading, not writing. Handy but not essential.

"Compose mode will be merged with Binder mode."
OK. I never used Compiose mode.

"Single-window interface"
Not sure about this. The only reason I can see for having a separate window for a document is when you are doing some intense comparisons between 2 or 3 or more documents. I have used Hog Bay Notebook a lot and I occasionally find myself in such a situation. Doesn't happen often but a nice feature onn those occasions.

"No more templates"
Not sure about this. I can't say I have used this yet, but I could see why it might be very handy for research notes, for example. Not a real big deal since, with customizable folders below the draft area you could just set up you own template folder and cut and paste.

"Do folders need notes"
I would rather keep this. Again, for using Scrivener as an organizing tool I find it useful.

New stuff

"Better outlining"
Yay! Have to see it in practice, but very welcome.

Annotations and inline comments and Footnotes
Looks good, but... My only question is, is there a way to see the text without the annotations visible? I think this is important because if you are re-reading a scene to get the feel of it, for example, you might not want the distraction of the annotations while you do so.

Improved RTF export
This looks excellent, especially the ability to have Word pick up annotations as comments.

Changes in Storyboard mode
This too sounds very good, especially the ability to change the synopsis on the card. (I was trying to do that this morning!) Again, have to see it in practice.

Thanks again for all your work. We'll try not to bug you too much with "when's the next beta"-type questions.

Cheers,
Simon

[dunx]

Thanks for the very clear roadmap.

A couple of reactions:

Draft mode - I have found exactly one task for this which I haven't found another way to perform: running spell check on the whole draft. I generally write my first draft with automatic spell checking turned off because I find it too distracting, but I also have not seen a way to apply spell checking to multiple documents selected in the Binder view. But I can run spell check in Draft view, and cover the whole doc in one go!

Templates - I am ashamed to say that I hadn't noticed that they had been added, and I have not been in a phase where they would have been useful. They probably are cruft though, in all honesty.

New commenting and annotations - these look very very good.

[KB]

"Single-window interface"
Not sure about this. The only reason I can see for having a separate window for a document is when you are doing some intense comparisons between 2 or 3 or more documents. I have used Hog Bay Notebook a lot and I occasionally find myself in such a situation. Doesn't happen often but a nice feature onn those occasions.

I have the demo of Mori (the new Hog Bay Notebook), and have tried HBN too, and cannot see where that allows you to open documents in other windows on their own, either. (Though maybe you mean that you struggle with HBN in that regard, too?) In Scrivener, though, you can split the document and have one document at the top and another one at the bottom. So you will still be able to view two documents at any one time. I can't think of a situation when I'd ever want to look at any more than two documents, though - my draft and a reference.

"No more templates"
Not sure about this. I can't say I have used this yet, but I could see why it might be very handy for research notes, for example. Not a real big deal since, with customizable folders below the draft area you could just set up you own template folder and cut and paste.

Templates - I am ashamed to say that I hadn't noticed that they had been added, and I have not been in a phase where they would have been useful. They probably are cruft though, in all honesty.

I think this says it all. It is one of those features that sounds useful, but in practise, how often would it be used? Dunno, we'll see about this one.

"Do folders need notes?"
I would rather keep this. Again, for using Scrivener as an organizing tool I find it useful.

I'm mulling this one over, but seriously, I think it is bloat. It just confuses issues. You can always have a document at the top of your chapter with any notes that you want to keep, which is set as being non-exportable. But if you're just wanting to use these notes as an overview of what should happen in your chapter, then that is where the outline will come in. We'll see...

My only question is, is there a way to see the text without the annotations visible? I think this is important because if you are re-reading a scene to get the feel of it, for example, you might not want the distraction of the annotations while you do so.

This is what I was saying - the system I was going to put into place to allow this would be way too complicated and bug-inducing for a 1.0 release. Maybe in 2.0. For now, annotations and footnotes will remain inline. They are coloured differently, so it is fairly simple to skip your eyes over them, I think. I have always worked in Word by putting comments in square brackets indicating that I need to change this or that part anyway, so I don't see any major issues with inline comments. I know some will disagree, but we can't have it all in a 1.0 release.

Draft mode - I have found exactly one task for this which I haven't found another way to perform: running spell check on the whole draft. I generally write my first draft with automatic spell checking turned off because I find it too distracting, but I also have not seen a way to apply spell checking to multiple documents selected in the Binder view. But I can run spell check in Draft view, and cover the whole doc in one go!

This is a good point. I will look into an alternative way of spell-checking the whole draft, though this may be more of a 1.5 thing...

Thanks,
Keith

[Jose]

Keith, thanks for your fantastic work, and for letting all of us participate. Here are some comments.

* Draft mode is going.
I never used the draft mode, but it might be a good idea to keep it as an export option.

* Compose mode will be merged with Binder mode.
Great. I have been using only binder and storyboard, and I just passed the 200 pages mark in my novel.

* Single-window interface.
That’s okay. All my editing happens in Full Screen mode, anyway.

* No more templates.
Might not be related, but should it be a way to save preferences on a project by project basis. For instance, I would like to have labels for fiction writing, and a different set for academic writing.

* Do folders need notes?
Okay, I never used them.

* Better outlining.
It would be great to be able to export outlines to RTF or Word formats. This is an option in other outliners, but the output is hideous, and needs a lot of tweaking before they can be used as real working documents.

* Annotations and inline comments have been merged into a new inline comments system.
This is not really clear to me. This is what I understand:

• Comments will be in-line, and marked by a different text color.
  
• A keyboard combination will hide or show all comments in a document.
  
• When exporting, would I be able to choose whether to include comments or not?

* Changes in Storyboard mode.
Sounds good. But, how difficult would it be to allow in-line editing for index cards, in other words, to be able select a cards and edit it right there. This seems more inuitive.

[rayz]

admin said:

Hi,

* Draft mode is going. Like I say, it's too buggy and adds little. Mellel and Jer's Novel Writer do this better as this is one of their core features. As it's not a core Scrivener feature, it is never going to compete. Things will be cleaner without it.

Good move. I've never been sure of the need to see the whole manuscript at once. You could have some kind preview, that shows a draft of all the documents you have selected from the browser, but it sounds like a lot of trouble to me.

admin said:

* Compose mode will be merged with Binder mode. From now on, you will split documents in Binder mode, and be able to hide the notes/index card in Binder mode too, so that Compose mode will be superfluous.

Sounds OK to me

admin said:

* Single-window interface. Double-clicking on a document will no longer open it in a separate window. All text editing will be done within Binder mode.

Excellent decision .... :-)

admin said:

* No more templates. I added this at the suggestion of a user, but in retrospect I think it is unnecessary bloat - sorry! I wonder if anybody uses it?

I'm not near my machine at the moment, but can you save a project to a new location, after it has been set up? If so, then you don't need templates.

admin said:

* Do folders need notes? I don't really think so. Again, I added this feature to 2.0 as a user suggestion, but I think it only confuses things.

Not sure why I would need this anyway.

admin said:

Okay, so that's the stuff that's going. Here's the stuff that's coming:

Yep. All looks great!

Can't wait to see it. ... :-)

[KB]

I never used the draft mode, but it might be a good idea to keep it as an export option.

Not sure what you mean by this... The Draft folder will remain, so you will still export a draft just the same. Only the draft *view* will go.

Might not be related, but should it be a way to save preferences on a project by project basis. For instance, I would like to have labels for fiction writing, and a different set for academic writing.

Labels and status are already saved on a project-by-project basis. In the future I may implement a "Project Template" feature which would allow you to save custom labels/project set ups, but that will probably be a 1.5 thing. Currently, by "templates", I mean the feature whereby you can select a folder and bring up a template editor, which allows you to define default text for all text documents created within that subfolder (eg. a character profile sheet).

I'm not near my machine at the moment, but can you save a project to a new location, after it has been set up? If so, then you don't need templates.

Right now there is no "Save Project As..." Like I say, a "Project Template" feature would be a good idea, but probably after 1.0...

It would be great to be able to export outlines to RTF or Word formats. This is an option in other outliners, but the output is hideous, and needs a lot of tweaking before they can be used as real working documents.

You can already export outlines by exporting only titles and synopses. However, export will improve, and there will also be the option to print your outline.

* Comments will be in-line, and marked by a different text color.

Yep.

* A keyboard combination will hide or show all comments in a document.

Nope. Inline comments/footnotes will always be visible, at least for version 1.0. Anything else would mean customising too much of the text system than I am willing to do before everything else is stable and rock solid, although it is something I would like to add in the future.

* When exporting, would I be able to choose whether to include comments or not?

Of course! Footnotes can be exported as footnotes or endnotes or not at all, and comments can be exported as RTF comments (which I believe only Word currently opens) or omitted completely. You should also be able to omit them from printing.

Sounds good. But, how difficult would it be to allow in-line editing for index cards, in other words, to be able select a cards and edit it right there. This seems more inuitive.

It sounds intuitive, but in practice, it wouldn't be. Storyboard mode is primarily about rearranging your scenes, so drag and drop should be easy. If you could just click in a card and edit it, drag and drop would be very awkward. You would then expect the title bar and text area to be editable, in which case there would be nothing to drag. Like in a table view or outline view, it would require a double-click to edit anyway. So, double-click will just open a small index card editor, which will give you more room to consider your synopsis...

Cheers,
Keith

[jan]

Thanks for the roadmap. The new features look great, and I look forward to using them. If exporting footnotes and comments to Word works as well as you describe, this feature alone will prompt many journalists and academical writers to switch to Scrivener as their new all-in-one writing tool.

I think it's a good decision to streamline the interface and only keep the really indispensable features. Merging Compose mode with Binder mode is a great idea (of course I'd have to say that, I suggested this myself in an earlier post :)). I don't need folder notes, and I never use separate windows for viewing files. Project templates could be useful, but they are certainly not a must-have feature for the first release.

However, I can't agree with you that Draft mode adds little to the program. I think it's a brilliant feature. Draft mode is great for viewing the chapter you're working on in its context, inspecting the flow of the story and editing the transitions between chapters. Whenever you get lost in the details and problems of a particular scene or dialogue, just switch to Draft mode and get the overall picture. At any stage of your work, you instantly know where your novel, story or essay is headed and what parts are still missing.

The other view modes (Binder/Compose and Storyboard view) all serve one and the same purpose: they are useful for composing and arranging the parts of a project. But Draft mode, with its editable preview of the draft, adds a different perspective on the project, and a very important one IMO. Being able to edit the draft as a single continuous file is so convenient and useful that I'm somewhat surprised at the fact that you and other users find this feature superfluous. Actually, I'd rather do without Storyboard mode (which I don't use at all) than without Draft mode. But that's just my weird opinion :)

Sorry to be such a nag, but is there really no chance to keep this feature in some way or other?

[KB]

Hmm, you've got me thinking about something. To paraphrase Michael Caine in The Italian Job: Don't panic. I have an idea...

[stevej]

My first post here, and I've only jumped aboard the Scrivener boat a few days ago. So take my responses for what they're worth. But I wanted to throw myself in front of the gun before draft mode gets killed off.

Draft mode is one of the things that sets Scrivener apart from several similar apps. For myself, I simply cannot see how one can write a book-length project without, at some points of the composition and editing, needing to see a given section in the context of other sections around it: and I mean not just being able to look at the other sections and then return, but being able to see a given section in its context. People write differently, but I cannot believe that I am the only person for whom the ability to view continuous text, even during composition, is crucial. I have to agree with jan that this is a "brilliant" feature of the app; and as great as many of Scrivener's other features are, I don't think that, for me, they would be able to make up for the absence of this one.

On the matter of outlining. I realize that you folks have probably been swatting at this issue for months now and that I probably have no new reflections to offer. But there is a single distinction that tells me in advance whether an app with some outlining properties will be useful for me: If it requires that I define groups (or folders) that can be nested and documents (or notes) that cannot be nested, then it will not be useful--for me, at least. Outlining is a sustained conceptual improvisation, and the group/document distinction defeats that improvisation in advance. This is a big reason why, as useful as DEVONthink has proven for storing research, I find it useless as a writing tool. The HBN/Mori entity, though I haven't worked with any of its iterations enough really to understand it, seems to have a better idea in this regard.

Thanks for listening. I trust my perspective will become more informed as I get used to using Scrivener and hearing y'all talk about it.

[KB]

Thanks for your input, much appreciated. To reply:

1) Draft mode
Don't worry. Although I originally said that I was abandoning this feature, I've - well, not exactly changed my mind, but started changing the feature. I am currently working on a more lightweight alternative that fits into the rest. So you will still be able to view - and edit - a section in the context of as many other sections as you want. In fact, you should be able to look at it within the context of arbitrary sections, should you so wish... Watch this space.

2) Outlining
This has been touched upon here before. In Scrivener, however, the folder/document distinction is important, because it is not only an outliner. In the next version, this distinction will be even more important, as clicking on a folder will bring up the storyboard view. Also, although it may make sense for a text document to be able to have subnodes in the outline view, it would make no sense for an image or a movie file to have text subnodes... Or at least, I don't think it would...

Thanks,
Keith

[gpercy]

admin said:

In fact, you should be able to look at it within the context of arbitrary sections, should you so wish... Watch this space.

I was imagining something along the lines of how it works in Ulysses ... where you select documents in the Browser (continuous or arbitrary) and see their text combined in the preview window as a single continuous read.

[KB]

I was imagining something along the lines of how it works in Ulysses ... where you select documents in the Browser (continuous or arbitrary) and see their text combined in the preview window as a single continuous read.

Bingo. Cross that with "Film Rolls" view in iPhoto (with text instead of images, obviously), and you've got a good idea of what I'm working towards...

[rayz]

admin said:

I was imagining something along the lines of how it works in Ulysses ... where you select documents in the Browser (continuous or arbitrary) and see their text combined in the preview window as a single continuous read.

Bingo. Cross that with "Film Rolls" view in iPhoto (with text instead of images, obviously), and you've got a good idea of what I'm working towards...

But will you still be able to edit documents in this combined mode? In Ulysses, you can't.

[KB]

Yes... It won't be quite like the preview pane in Ulysses. It will be more like the text blocks in Jer's.