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Post by sadpoe on Nov 13, 2005 19:27:42 GMT
Hi,
to German Users it would be comfortable to use a German Keyboard design (e.g. switchable in a German Version). This means that quotation marks could be created by shift+2 (instead of alt+^).
It would really increase working speed ;-)
Regards,
Poe
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Post by KB on Nov 16, 2005 20:06:24 GMT
The only reason I haven't answered this yet is that I don't know the answer.  I don't understand why this is an issue only to Scrivener. Are you saying that in all other apps you can use shift-2 for quotation marks, but not in Scrivener? I know that Mac keyboards in England force the US layout - most English keyboards use shift-2 for quotations, but on Macs you have to use the key next to the semi-colon. But you get used to it.  Could you clarify whether this is _only_ an issue with Scrivener, please? Thanks. |
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Post by fgrieser on Nov 18, 2005 23:48:15 GMT
Hi Keith.
The problem is: German "smart quotes" are different to English ones. The opening quotation mark looks like 2 commas: ,, (that is what you get when typing ALT+^), the closing quotation mark looks like the English opening quote I (I can´t get it in my browser).
I´d say Scrivener assumes that you write in English. So you get English smart quotes.
Other apps can be told that what you type is German, and they know what German smart quotes look like. The same with Spanish, etc.
If you could add that to Scrivener, it would be a great help for non-English writers. I don´t know how to do it, but I know it can be done.
So. To answer your question to sadpoe: Yes it is an issue with Scrivener. I just checked NeoOffice and Ulysses - they do not have that problem.
Bye, Franz
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Post by KB on Nov 19, 2005 0:21:37 GMT
Ah - thanks. And yes, if you're talking about Smart Quotes, then you are right: currently smart quotes are only English. In the next beta you can turn smart quotes off. At some point in the future I will localise them, but that will be a little while, because obviously I will have to look into smart quotes for other languages. Whilst I don't want to alienate users of different languages, I hope you will understand that refinements and localisation will be some of the last things that get done - around release time, really.
P.S. It would make my job easier if you can give me the unicode for the German opening and closing quotes. To find this out, in Scrivener or TextEdit, go to Edit > Special Characters..., and find the quotes. Once you've found them, make sure you select "Code Tables" from "View" at the top to get the unicode... Thanks!
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Post by fgrieser on Nov 21, 2005 20:17:03 GMT
Hi Keith.
The Unicode code for German smart quotes is:
201E for opening quotes
201C for closing quotes
Best wishes, Franz
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Post by KB on Nov 22, 2005 21:38:17 GMT
Thanks - that helps. What about for none-smart quotes (straight quotes)? The way smart quotes works is this, you see:
As you type, the program checks to see if you tried to type a straight quote. If you did, it checks the context and immediately swaps it for an opening or closing quote.
So I need to know what the unicode for the straight quote is in order to look for it - sorry I forgot to ask for that in my earlier post!
Many thanks,
Keith
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Post by fgrieser on Nov 23, 2005 19:33:12 GMT
Hi Keith.
Not sure what you need that for (after all a straight quote is the same in English and in German - if I am not mistaken). Anyway: The Unicode is 0022.
Bye, Franz
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Post by KB on Nov 23, 2005 23:31:00 GMT
Sorry, my mistake. I was slightly confused by the earlier post, but after I asked for this I suddenly realised that they were probably, indeed, the same.
Right... Now I know how to implement German smart quotes, but I still have one thing left to work out: getting the text system to work based on localisation settings. In other words, I now know how I could change the current code to be right for German, but not how to get it to change its behaviour depending on localisation. I need to research this. So it may still take a while before this is implemented, but thank you for giving me the info that I need so that I can do it eventually.
Thanks again,
Keith
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Post by fgrieser on Nov 24, 2005 9:01:38 GMT
Hi Keith.
I am sure other things have higher priority. The smart quotes issue is only a minor one - when writing I don´t bother whether the quotes are right. That is something I do when preparing the manuscript for showing it to someone else, it requires only one or two Search Replace actions in NeoOffice :-)
So: Don´t let the issue distract you from your work on more important issues.
And: Thanks for the great app and for your listening to your users.
Franz
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I don't understand why this is an issue only to Scrivener. Are you saying that in all other apps you can use shift-2 for quotation marks, but not in Scrivener? I know that Mac keyboards in England force the US layout - most English keyboards use shift-2 for quotations, but on Macs you have to use the key next to the semi-colon. But you get used to it. 
Could you clarify whether this is _only_ an issue with Scrivener, please? Thanks.