Scrivener 0.2.0b released &future (+ BUG UPDATE)

[KB]

Hello,

Scrivener 0.2.0b is now available for download. I am having hella problems (as they say) with my yahoo.co.uk address which means that I have not been able to send out e-mails to everyone. If you have not received an e-mail, the download address is exactly the same as last time, but with Scrivener_020b.dmg at the end instead of Scrivener_012.dmg. Be sure to check out "New Stuff" in tutorial.scriv, as always. Hope you like it.

Right now I am considering the future of Scrivener - frankly, I am thinking about streamlining it. It has grown into something of a beast, and, looking at it today I having been thinking: will I always be developing and never writing with this? I started development on Scrivener so that I would have a tool to help me write my novel, but now I don't even get chance to work on my novel because all my time is taken up by Scrivener development. Something is wrong there. But moreover, as I add more and more features, Scrivener loses focus and becomes bloated; it loses elegance. New users may look at it and puzzle. So, here are some of the things I am thinking about right now:

- Improving the text system / annotations still, as already discussed.
- Streamlining the interface so that there are not four completely different views, but only variations on the one.
- More of an iMovie/iPhoto simplicity to the whole thing.
- Single window interface (no more separate editor windows).
- Getting rid of all bloat, so that everything is more manageable.
- Is Draft view even necessary? It is nice, but it is heavy-duty and cumbersome (and buggy?).

These are things I am going to be thinking about over the next month or so. This could mean losing features that are already there, as well as crossing items off the "to do" list. This may seem an odd way of going about things, and may even alienate some. But right now I think Scrivener needs more focus; a clear design philosophy. I don't want to lose sight of what I set out to do. Scrivener was never intended as a formatting tool, even though it provides basic formatting tools. It was meant as a means for creating an initial rough draft that could be opened in Word or Mellel or whatever for formatting, editing and refining...

Anyway:

Happy New Year!

Hope you all have a great 2006.

Keith

[markallen]

Thanks Keith. I did not recieve an email, but got this. I agree that you need to consider simplifying the interface and hiding away the more advanced features so that new users do not get bogged down. You should also consider pairing down you to-do feature list so that you can concentrate on a solid product and launch it. You may find that once you have launched it, you can set aside a few months to write your story rather than this product. Then later you can return to enhance it with a version 2.0.

Either way, keep up the great work!!

[dave]

Hi Keith,

Sounds like you might need a good night out ! I've only recently had enough free time to really start plucking away with Scrivener but I'll tell you that I really like the feel so far—sure you may be able to simplify on a few areas but I haven't found it daunting at all.

I'm sure that all of the testers would totally understand if you wanted to take some time off from developing to concentrate on writing. IMHO Scrivener is stable enough as it is that any bugs can be worked on at a later date.

Do what you need to do and I for one will be behind you 100%.

That said, I'm off to try the newest version—thanks! Happy New Year!

Dave

[gjvandijk]

Keith,
Thank you for the new version. Great.
A while ago I had to paint a sleeping room in my house. Before I realised it I Did the whole house and even painted walls which did'nt need it to be painted. All the time I wanted to write my new novel but I kept thinking: no, I have to finish this and the wife wants me to do this also etc.
But I really do think (and I agree with you on that) that writing is more important than repainting a well-painted house.
Happy new Year.
BTW: I buy Scrivener whenever you want the money.

[rayz]

admin said:

- Improving the text system / annotations still, as already discussed.

Good idea.

admin said:

- Streamlining the interface so that there are not four completely different views, but only variations on the one.

Agreed. As far as I can tell, the other views don't do much. One view, with browser on the left, the text editor in the middle and the storyboard (with much smaller blocks) running along the bottom. The text view should be splittable, so that you can look at two documents at the same time.
On the right, the note/info view.

admin said:

- More of an iMovie/iPhoto simplicity to the whole thing.

Sounds interesting.

admin said:

- Single window interface (no more separate editor windows).

Agreed, but with a ruler and toolbar added for basic formatting.

admin said:

- Getting rid of all bloat, so that everything is more manageable.

Always a good idea.

admin said:

- Is Draft view even necessary? It is nice, but it is heavy-duty and cumbersome (and buggy?).

Just select the documents from the browser, and they appear in the editor window (and the combined notes appear on the right). I guess while you have multiple documents selected though, you won't be able to edit.

It could be that you're trying to do too much here. This is a writing tool, yes?
Get rid of the fixed folders; let folk add documents and folders as needed. Keep them as text only. If folk want to add notes and graphics, just add them to the notes field attached at the folder/document level.

admin said:

It was meant as a means for creating an initial rough draft that could be opened in Word or Mellel or whatever for formatting, editing and refining...

Whoa! I hope you're not thinking of dumping the basic formatting stuff. ..

[janra]

KB said:

Right now I am considering the future of Scrivener - frankly, I am thinking about streamlining it. It has grown into something of a beast

Always a danger when trying to make a good program... I've noticed the same thing happening in projects I work on. Especially when you have lots of users who have all kinds of great ideas for just one more cool feature.

- Streamlining the interface so that there are not four completely different views, but only variations on the one.
- Is Draft view even necessary? It is nice, but it is heavy-duty and cumbersome (and buggy?).

Now I can't speak for anybody else, but I have never used draft view. Since you can't see more than a screen's worth of text at a time anyway, I find compose view more than adequate, and the compose split-screen even more useful than a whole document draft view.

About Compose and Binder views, I've seen your explanation for having them separate and I do see the different functions of the two. Since you're considering cutting down on the views, I would like to pass on a thought which just popped into my head as I was writing this post. I noticed that the new version has two things you can display in the "notes" area now (notes|info) and I was wondering what you would make of having a compose-type split screen where the second window had the option of showing either a document or the table.

As for cutting it down to variations on the one view only, I'd like to put in a word for keeping storyboard view. I haven't played a lot with it yet as I was mostly writing a NaNo instead of doing editing, but I can see a huge utility to it once I start doing the editing thing - and I'm prepping an older NaNo for just that, by importing it from the text files into Scrivener specifically so I can give the editing features a test run. I tried using paper index cards once, but since they weren't associated with their scenes in any way other than by their story date I found it too much hassle - and in Scrivener they're created, moved, updated, even filled in with some text if I forget to put anything in, and they're always at hand.

It was meant as a means for creating an initial rough draft that could be opened in Word or Mellel or whatever for formatting, editing and refining...

From what I've seen so far, the real power of Scrivener is in its editing and organizational features - I can bang out a first draft in any program that doesn't actively get in my way when I'm typing *cough*MSWord*cough* but the editing features are what made me put in the time to import my previous NaNo and keep using it instead of going back to vim and my set of scripts (where frankly I'm more comfortable in terms of pure text editing).

-janra

[KB]

Storyboard is definitely going to stay in some way. I like Storyboard mode, but it's a bit cramped at the moment. Currently I am thinking of having an outline view on the left (like in Binder/Compose) without icons, which will be there all the time. On the right of that, you might have your storyboard, you might have editable synopses in a table view, or you might have your text/info.

Formatting will 100% stay. Scrivener is not a plain text tool.

I'm just looking at different ways of refining the interface right now. I like Binder view a lot; the central column for text is very book-ish and natural. I think Draft view will go, as it's not as useful as I thought it would be. It was a feature borrowed from Mellel and Jer's, but it's never going to be as good (or fast) as their implementations because it's not central to Scrivener.

So... I'm mulling on it...

[chasingisis]

Keith,

Hang in there. I'm sure you're stressed and you need a break to work on your own writing. I'm sure Dave is right — we're all okay for right now. Scrivener is an excellent and stable program.

I can understand you wanting to make changes and feeling like it's too bulky. But look at it like a novel: there comes a time when you're so close to your work that you can't see the forest for the trees.

Take three or four weeks, work on your own writing, take a break, etc. Then come back to Scrivener and take a look at it. The time away will make you see clearer what needs to be done and what is good enough for right now.

To be perfectly honest — as a last thought — I love this program and it has been working beautifully for me, without any bugs. I don't think I'd be able to go back to writing without it.

(My dad and I are also ready to buy copies when you put out the official release... but think about that later.)

[KB]

Thanks. Don't worry, all the changes I'm planning are in line with the current way that Scrivener works; they should just cut out some bloat and get rid of the buggier areas. Draft view will be replaced by a better outlining view, which was what that view was really intended for in the first place but got sidetracked.

Anyway...

BUG UPDATE
----------------

There was a bug in 0.2.0b that caused a crash in Draft view when trying to display the status or label columns. This has been fixed, so please re-download 0.2.0b from the same link and reinstall.

Thanks,
Keith

[Jose]

Keith,

I have been using Scrivener 0.020b for a few days, and I want to thank you for such a great app. I began writing this novel (my fourth one) with Ulysses, but after I found Scrivener I moved my whole project into it. I have now about 200 pages in almost 30 chapters, and more than 30 research documents (most of them with images), and I cannot imagine working in a different environment. Thank you.

I used to be a computer consultant before, and I know for a fact that an app is never “done.” The only way to feel accomplished is to decide on a release date, and release the best app you can deliver that date. Scrivener is stable and usable enough to be a 1.0 version.

So, as many have suggested, perhaps this would be a good time to plan a release 1.0. I am --and I am sure a number of your users are-- ready to buy a license as soon as you make it available. Then, you can let it be for a while before coming back to work on Scrivener 1.1.

As your user community grows, you will have requests for changes in existing features and the addition of new ones. And there is always the temptation to add everything the user wants. But in this particular case, you have a great advantage: you are going to be your first user. I would suggest that, considering the features Scrivener already has, “less will be more.”

If it helps any, in my view, these are the features that make Scrivener the prime writer’s program for OS X:

• Full screen format.
  
• The use of a standard formant (RTF).
  
• Support of basic formating, including support for system wide “Styles” as implemented by Apple in OS X.
  
• The ability to organize a project using nested folders.
  
• The “Storyboard” view with index cards.
  
• The support of notes for each document.
  
• Support for printing from within Scrivener.
  
• The ability to create a research database with most OS X supported formats.
  

There are a few other features that I would love to have handy in Scrivener, but they are not crucial. Scrivener supports very well the seven features listed above.

In short. Release the version 1.0, make licenses available, and take some time off to write a good first draft. Thank you again for writing Scrivener.

[Dev Benegal]

Keith,

You may be right about losing the Draft view. I find myself working most in the Compose View and occassionally the Binder view. I guess I have not reached the stage where I need the Storyboard view but DO NOT lose that!

Look forward to the final release though I must add that this is pretty good as it is. I can write and most importantly AM writing.

Best wishes for 2006.

[KB]

Thanks for the comments. I wan to lose Draft view before 1.0 because I don't think it would be great to take away a view after users have paid - those who *did* like Draft view would have cause for complaint (and a refund!).

Draft view will the only thing to go altogether, though, replaced by a better outlining table. Compose and Binder view ill be combined. So if it seems that Compose view has also been lost in the next version, do not be alarmed. It will just be a matter of opening the split (and getting rid of the info panel on the right if you want) in what is currently known as "Binder" view...

Storyboard will also stay, but it will look slightly different, so that it is easier to select groups and is more focussed on the index cards rather than text editing in that view.

Thanks gain,
All the best,
Keith

[gpercy]

Hi. I'm a new beta tester and looking forward to converting my writing project over from Ulysses. I really like your latest thoughts on fine tuning Scrivener. Combining Compose and Binder is a great idea. And regarding Storyboard (which I was excited to see when I first opened the beta) ... I would like to have alternate choices to the cork board texture background, or just the option of some background colors instead. A small issue, but if you spend vast amounts of time with an app, it's nice to have those kinds of preferences available.

And in terms of what can be done with the index card format, if you aren't already aware of it, download the application SuperNotecard. The user interface is dreadful, but it has some nice ideas for working with cards and stacks of cards. You might find something useful for further development. Not that I want to distract you from getting 1.0 done ...

Anyway, great work! And I look forward to working with Scrivener.

[Now if someone would just develop a great Cocoa app for writing film screenplays, so that I can stop using the dreadful Final Draft software.]

Cheers,
Gerry Percy

[KB]

Thanks for the comments, Gerry - glad you are enjoying using it.

I would like to have alternate choices to the cork board texture background, or just the option of some background colors instead.

Whoops! Earlier versions all had a grey background (the same colour as the background in iPhoto. I put the corkboard texture in as a quick test, as I wanted "Corkboard background" to be an option for the next version. But I forgot to change it back before releasing the bug-fixed beta... So the corkboard texture shouldn't be there at all, it was just an oversight on my part. The next version will revert to the plain background (with the option of a corkboard texture), and a future version may well allow you to choose the colour.

I have played with SuperNoteCard (and it's earlier incarnation, Little Miss Lonely Notes), but I have to admit that I never got beyond toying with it. I didn't really "get it", to be honest. I've heard lots of good things about it, but it felt very counter-intuitive to me. Guess I'll have to have another look.

Cheers,
Keith

[rayz]

gpercy said:

[Now if someone would just develop a great Cocoa app for writing film screenplays, so that I can stop using the dreadful Final Draft software.]

Blimey ....

www.marinersoftware.com/eventview.php?event=34